ID & Creation Science CHALLENGE!

The other day I responded that ID is not science in the Blogging Sundance blog. Of course a chorus of ID supporters have jumped on me in the belief that "militant religious atheists" have some sort of agenda.

There are some very vocal people at the Sundance blog who claim that if I only consider THEIR facts, watch THEIR movie, or read THEIR book that I will, of course, see the error of my ways and abandon my irrational thinking.


Yes, I said okay.

I challenge any ID / Creation Science supporters out there to suggest to me via email (or as comments to this post) the most devastating ID book or movie that shakes the foundations of Evolution.

I will read or watch the recommended material, and then will then prove that I've done so by writing a report or critique on each book I've read or movie I've seen.

I will ask for a couple of reasonable conditions.

My first condition is that I only promise to read 5 books, and watch 3 movies. I say this because my time is limited, and I have a great deal of work-related reading that I already do. (I also have 413 books in my Amazon Wish List that I'd rather read instead; but maybe I'll get hooked on ID books and start adding them to my wish list too.)

My next condition is that I need good recommendations for books or movies. I'm looking for quality Intelligent Design books that I can find in the library - I'm not interested in reading some rabid ID'er's "irrefutable proofs" in his blog - I want something written by the Big Names in the field.

Yes, I can find 'big name' books myself - that's not the point. I want suggestions from ID'ers so I can't be blamed for stacking the deck in my favor. This also gives ID supporters the chance to direct my reading.

My last condition is that I pay no money for any book or movie. I'm saving my money to pay for my hobby addictions upgrade my home woodshop, spend on my robotics hobby, and of course to purchase from my Amazon Wish list. If I can't find your recommendation in my local library, then I'm afraid I won't be able to oblige.

The Fresno library is pretty decent though - Fresno allows for intra-library loans throughout a large part of California.
You can even check the Fresno Library to see if a book is available, so there's no way I could give you the run-around about something not being available.

(If someone out there would like to send me a book or movie as a present, I would gladly accept and I would also be much more predisposed to read or watch it. I don't care if it's used - you can even send me that book you use to keep your desk from wobbling. If someone would like to do this, then please send me an email.)

That's it. That's all I ask. Let the ID supporters and Creationists suggest what I should read or watch.

Now here's what I will do in return.

On finishing a book or movie, I promise to write a book report / critique of what I have read or seen. I promise that it will at least be 2000 words in length, and that I will reference anything that I bring up as a refutation, explanation, or agreement. This will be a college-level critique, with a bibliography of my references. I'll post it in HTML format in my blog, and I'll archive it as a downloadable PDF file and post a link to it in my blog.

What a deal!

Not only do you get to make an Atheistic Evolution supporter read (or watch) your ID material, you also get to make me slave over a book critique that will actually prove that I've read your 'ultimate proof of Intelligent Design.'

There's an added bonus - if you don't like what I've written in my report, you'll get to tell me what a dolt I am in the comments to the report in my blog. Neat huh?

Once I get at least 10 different people making suggestions, I'll blog a listing of suggested materials that I've received and will start trying to figure out which one I'll read / watch first. I'll ask for advice in determining what my top choices will be.

I'm really sticking my neck out with little or no return to me for what I'm promising. I'm both dreading, and excited about the reading and research required for each report.

Start sending me suggestions now, and you can force a Darwinist / Atheist to read and report on your favorite ID book!


Anonymous said...

Your not going to believe any proof, so why bother

do your own homework!!!

Anonymous said...

It's true that I could select my own books and movies to watch and report on - but I've found that people in the ID field not only disagree with each other, but that some are absurd even to the ID mainstream. I mean C'mon - Hovind says that T-Rex is a plant eater??

Someone's going to accuse me of stacking the deck, no matter what I do - but with suggestions that will be minimized.

And as for 'believing' - if the evidence is credible, then why not? Science is about accepting provable ideas - that's all I'm asking for.

Scientia said...

Cal- holy cow! This goes waaaaay past due diligence. I'll be reading what you have to say on this- er, material- with interest, but as for the work itself, all I can say is, Better you than me, man. Yikes.

And Tim- Calladus just made you an incredibly openminded and sincere offer, and all you have to say is "Why bother?" You may not be willing- or able- to recommend "high-quality ID books" to anyone else, but your dismissal of someone who disagrees with you's genuine attempt to understand the basis of your beliefs pretty much disqualifies you from ever again complaining that other people who don't read ID texts don't understand what it's all about.

Step up to the plate and recommend something, please, or shut up permanently about how shunned, belittled, discriminated against and misunderstood the "ID" crowd is.

Anonymous said...

I'm actually dreading somewhat the time it will take to create an intelligent report / critique. I have to wedge this in between working engineer’s hours and the time I spend volunteering.

Even worse, this is time away from books that I want to read, and time out of learning how to make furniture, or fooling around with amateur robotics in my hobby shop.

Oy! What am I getting myself into?!

Anonymous said...

Tim, if it really is "proof" he will have to believe it.

If it is only the usual garbage that can easily be disqualified as "proof", then don't get mad at Cal if the ID fans cannot substantiate their case.

Final thought-
1. If nature is so complex as to require a complex designer, then that designer must also require a complex designer.
2. We have no solid experience of the supernatural, therefore we cannot infer supernatural influences from natural events.

Anonymous said...

Ok start with this book

Debating Design : From Darwin to DNA by Dembski and Ruse

Kath said...

Yaa! This is great! Someone who will take a reccomendation seriously, and actually read it and write a commentary! The problem is, a lot of these great books are not widely availiable. I will do some research, and get back to you...

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the ‘Debating Design’ recommendation, anon. I appreciate it.

Meatball (Interesting pseudonym!) I appreciate you taking me seriously. I am sincere in this. Since I’m not exactly being inundated with suggestions as yet, feel free to spread the word to anyone you think may be interested.

Kath said...

Great, I am picking my husbands brain at the moment....thatsagoodmeatball is from "The Wedding Singer", one of my fav's

Kath said...

Wow, no one else has recommended anything?! I am having trouble finding books that are also avaliable in that library...hold tight, I am going to work something out...If you have a spare hour, half hour, whatever, there are really interesting videos, most of which I have seen, on:
Dr. Werner Gitt, 'In the beginning was Information' is one book I was going to recommend...(which isn't in the library), but I would also like to suggest that if you do read these recommendations, don't look up reviews until you have done your own. It would be interesting to see the similarities or differences. And anything by Dr. Jonathan Sarfati is excellent. I do intend to somehow get something to you (I also don't have much spare cash either!). As a side note, I don't believe Kent Hovind should be reccognized as a so-called creation science leader. There are so many other better and more informed speakers (who ARE scientists) out there. Check for great articles. (PS. Check out the teeth on a fuit bat, would believe, if only by the teeth, that they don't eat meat? --In regards to your t-rex comment from above)

Gary S. Hurd said...

So, is this issue "dead" or "live?"

Anonymous said...

Gary, the issue is definitely still 'ALIVE'! See my 17 April 06 blog entry where I've actually chosen a book to review.

The blog entry is called, "ID & Creation Science Challenge Update #2"

Danny Boy, FCD said...

Nice challenge! I hope the Cre/ID'ers would take your offer seriously. I myself don't like reading creationist literature, and the only book I did read was a free book by Jehovah's Witnesses called Evolution of Creation - How did we get Here? I've heard that this book is probably the most widely read and widely owned creationist tome ever, since the JW's are giving it away to anyone who asks (and even those who don't!).

But I'm not a creationist so I can't recommend anything to you.

Anonymous said...

There have been updates to my progress in this challange! See the main page, or use the Google blog search feature to search for Creation Science Challange for the latest update.