tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5736821.post4865435503677014856..comments2023-08-08T04:19:26.974-07:00Comments on THE CALLADUS BLOG: Heaven full of sorrowCalladushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17620879847877868166noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5736821.post-88029992567497201642007-05-01T17:19:00.000-07:002007-05-01T17:19:00.000-07:00Well, regardless of which Circle of Hell Bouguerea...Well, regardless of which Circle of Hell Bouguereau was depicting (what do you think about it portraying the wrathful souls in teh Fifth Circle, btw?), this post has piqued my interest in reading Dante again. And coincidentally, I'd also only just started reading the book <I>The Dante Club</I>, about a serial killer who murders his victims in ways depicting the various punishments in Dante's <I>Inferno</I>. So now I ~have~ to read <I>The Divine Comedy</I> itself, again.<BR/><BR/>Funny I'd never heard of Bouguereau before, though... I must be slipping up in my art appreciation. *g* I do enjoy your "Friday at the Atelier" series! <BR/><BR/>(Ah, but I <I>knew</I> I'd seen <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA2Dvqdf6zY" REL="nofollow">that one painting</A> before this, though! heheheh....)AmberKatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18288659650941053065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5736821.post-2344595949360988902007-04-29T18:35:00.000-07:002007-04-29T18:35:00.000-07:00Methodists are harder to pin down on what Hell isU...<I>Methodists are harder to pin down on what Hell is</I><BR/><BR/>UMC doctrine is very sketchy on eschatology, but Wesley was an amillenialist (although that term only emerged a century later). He thought that people, upon death, went to "the abode of the dead" -- I can't remember the actual Greek term, but that's how it translates into English. It's kind of a holding cell for humanity, divided into pleasant and unpleasant halves. Wesley said that the end time would occur suddenly and without warning. Christ would appear and a physical resurrection of the dead would take place out of the abode of the dead, and then a final judgment. Hell, as Wesley defined it, is something that will only be realized upon the last judgment, as a final place for the damned.<BR/><BR/>Eschatology wasn't a subject that Wesley dealt with much, and this tendency is strongly carried out in modern Methodism. That's why Methodists are hard to pin down on the subject of Hell. It's just not something that was ever a central focus of the movement.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04854543617806427302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5736821.post-72407164989256270032007-04-28T03:19:00.000-07:002007-04-28T03:19:00.000-07:00Hmm... I thought it might be the latter, but after...Hmm... I thought it might be the latter, but after some browsing in Wikipedia, I think perhaps it depicts the wrathful souls in the Fifth Circle, instead. Wikipedia and other sites describe the wrathful as being condemned to violently attack each other on the surface of the River Styx.AmberKatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18288659650941053065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5736821.post-6445726131922162392007-04-27T15:00:00.000-07:002007-04-27T15:00:00.000-07:00Oh! That work is by Bouguereau - one of my top 3 ...Oh! That work is by <A HREF="http://calladus.blogspot.com/2006/11/friday-in-atelier-la-vague-by.html" REL="nofollow">Bouguereau</A> - one of my top 3 favorite artists. <BR/><BR/>You might translate the title as "Dante and Virgil in Hell" - which doesn't say much about which circle of the Inferno they are in.<BR/><BR/>However, they are violent, so we can assume they are in the 7th circle. There is no river of boiling blood, so we can assume they are not in the outer ring. There are no trees, so we know they are not suicides. It also seems fairly obvious that they are not blasphemers or sodomites, and they are not sitting down, so they are not of the inner ring of the 7th circle.<BR/><BR/>My guess? They are of the outer ring of the 7th circle, and Bouguereau just didn't show the boiling blood, or they are sodomites, from the inner ring, and that's a "love bite".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5736821.post-47896548249641491072007-04-27T14:37:00.000-07:002007-04-27T14:37:00.000-07:00No, I meant the second painting you have there, "D...No, I meant the second painting you have there, "Dante et Virgile aux Enfers"... the one with the redheaded guy sucking on the dark-haired guy's neck.AmberKatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18288659650941053065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5736821.post-33389828199379300182007-04-26T17:27:00.000-07:002007-04-26T17:27:00.000-07:00The Painting is from Frans Fracken II, a Baroque p...The Painting is from Frans Fracken II, a Baroque painter from Germany. He and his brother, Hieronymus II, were painters with similar styles and a fascination of the human nude.<BR/><BR/>This isn't a painting of Dante's Inferno, it is titled, "The Damned Cast into Hell". <BR/><BR/>Artists who lived during a prudish era, or at a prudish location, seemed to frequently paint "religious" themes that contained nudes. I think it probably kept them out of jail, or worse, for offending the sensibilities of those in power. Who can object to a beautiful, but nude, Eve in the Garden of Eden?<BR/><BR/>Of course I could be completely mistaken, but I'll bet I'm not too far off.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5736821.post-60249682984426182972007-04-26T17:13:00.000-07:002007-04-26T17:13:00.000-07:00By the way, what circle of Hell is that represente...By the way, what circle of Hell is that represented in that painting? (It's been quite a while since I last read <I>Inferno</I>, but I don't recognize the punishment depicted... except for it's very obvious sadomasochisticly homoerotic overtones! I have friends who would think that painting looks like a fun time. *g* )AmberKatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18288659650941053065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5736821.post-88702631741160182222007-04-26T17:08:00.000-07:002007-04-26T17:08:00.000-07:00I've heard passages like Revelation 21:4 used as i...I've heard passages like Revelation 21:4 used as inferences that God will take away the pain of losing loved ones to Hell. Don't know if this meant you wouldn't remember them anymore, or if you wouldn't <I>care</I> about them anymore... or perhaps that you'd fully understand "God's Point Of View" and agree with him that they deserved to be there.<BR/><BR/>But I read something somewhere else, back in the latter part of my "believing days," that said God had to love you at least as much as the person who loved you most. And that that meant that God was much more merciful than we finite humans gave him credit for, even in the Bible. This same person made the very valid point that we become like the god we worship... and if we are hateful, judgemental, cruel, exclusionary, etc, then we have a very wrong picture in our minds of God... or we are not worshipping the "True God."<BR/><BR/>Nowadays, that's the bit that makes the most sense to me, even though I don't hold those religious beliefs any more.AmberKatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18288659650941053065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5736821.post-769051710099510292007-04-25T17:50:00.000-07:002007-04-25T17:50:00.000-07:00I was pretty sure the average monotheistic God is ...I was pretty sure the average monotheistic God is capable of anything at all, by definition.<BR/><BR/>I mean, I don't think any religious person has a valid argument for how the Godlike behavior they believe in <EM>makes any coherent sense</EM>, on human terms.<BR/><BR/>And I find it basically depressing that people would enjoy believing in something that, on human terms, doesn't make any sense.<BR/><BR/>Let alone, you know, that we can't draw any conclusions about it because we can't see any of it taking place, anyway.<BR/><BR/>I mean, I only want to imply how blatantly dead-ended this line of questioning is.asgromohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07857008470068274623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5736821.post-58622709621415499152007-04-25T07:13:00.000-07:002007-04-25T07:13:00.000-07:00I was told by one of my old preachers that in Heav...I was told by one of my old preachers that in Heaven family is meaningless. You are no longer a wife or husband, son or daughter - and no longer have the same concerns about them.<BR/><BR/>This led to other questions - who is God to tell me who I don't consider to be my brother or sister? I have a sister by blood, and two step-brothers. What about two friends who consider themselves to be brothers?<BR/><BR/>If families are so easily dissolved by God then friendships would be too. Love between spouses and love between friends would cease to have meaning.<BR/><BR/>If God is capable of destroying love, then what else is he capable of?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5736821.post-78649047428671296602007-04-25T00:17:00.000-07:002007-04-25T00:17:00.000-07:00I'd assume that in heaven you just stop caring! Ce...I'd assume that in heaven you just stop caring! Certainly you can imagine a place so profoundly perfect it will conquer your deepest worries or fears, win you over despite your ethical concerns... It may not be long before we have <EM>drugs</EM> that do that. Why wouldn't god figure it out?<BR/><BR/>I mean, I wouldn't want to believe any of this crap for a second, of course.asgromohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07857008470068274623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5736821.post-55551191818205720682007-04-24T09:00:00.000-07:002007-04-24T09:00:00.000-07:00I'm really only asking one question here Dave. Wi...I'm really only asking one question here Dave. Will you be able to enjoy your Heavenly reward knowing one of your loved ones is suffering eternally in Hell?<BR/><BR/>I haven't found the answer in scripture. If you have, I'd love to know about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5736821.post-3827754101218048252007-04-24T08:56:00.000-07:002007-04-24T08:56:00.000-07:00All of your questions and concerns I believe are a...All of your questions and concerns I believe are answered in scripture. These are legitimate questions - and deserve thoughtful answers. As a follower I wonder the same things about family, friends and loved ones. Maybe this is naive or seems silly to an atheist - but the kind of love that I have for my friends is precisely why I am passionate about telling them about Jesus.<BR/><BR/>Just because the question is tough or doesn't make sense to us doesn't make it false however. A lot of things don't make sense to me - but they are true none the less.<BR/><BR/>Love your blog!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com